From Passion to Paycheck: Revolutionizing the CPA Pipeline with Alicia Gelinas Part 2
In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we continue our conversation with Alicia Gelinas, President & CEO of COCPA. Alicia takes a deep dive into the evolving nature of professional networking, the impact of technology on relationship-building, and the significance of in-person interactions in an increasingly virtual world. With a focus on enhancing the CPA profession, she navigates through the challenges posed by remote work, the Amazon effect, and the need for robust personal connections within the CPA community. Alicia also discusses her vision for the future, aiming to leave a legacy of a connected, supportive, and forward-thinking CPA community.
Key Takeaways:
- Evolving Networking Dynamics: Understanding how virtual connectivity influences professional networking and the enduring importance of in-person interactions.
- Strategic Focus of CoCPA: Emphasizing member support and advocacy through initiatives like leadership programs and scholarships.
- The Amazon Effect: Discussing the shift towards instant solutions and its impact on long-term professional relationship building.
- Emerging Trends: Highlighting the growing importance of ESG reporting and the role of CPAs in leveraging AI and other emerging technologies.
- Legacy and Community: Alicia's vision for fostering a sense of belonging and pride within the CPA profession through active engagement and professional support.
Quotables
- "COCPA builds community for CPAs. CPAs need other CPAs, and we need a support group.” -Alicia Gelinas
- "If CPAs don't think about the role that they need to play, they will be left behind and somebody else will take the role of trust.” -Alicia Gelinas
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Transcript
Welcome to Salt Ovation.
Speaker A:The Salt Ovation show is a podcast series featuring the leading voices in Salt, where we talk about the issues and strategies to help you make sense of state and local tax.
Speaker A:Well, and I could get annihilated for this statement, but do you think maybe if maybe membership between the 20 and 40 year old demographic maybe doesn't see that value of connection because they grew up in an environment where you're connected through a device, right?
Speaker A:Like, your social network isn't tactile, where, you know, I'm 40.
Speaker A:I've been practicing.
Speaker A:You know, I walked into the doors at QPMG when I was 21.
Speaker A:So I've been doing this almost 19 years.
Speaker A:And I walked into doors, and I had to sit in a room, and I had to learn, and I had to pick up the phone, and I kind of.
Speaker A:There was a lot of learning by osmosis and being tactile and really appreciating that value and people getting together face to face, happy hours, all of that stuff.
Speaker A:Do you think some of that maybe there's a disconnect in the perception of value, that I don't need to be part of an organization because I can find it with peers over the Internet or through TikTok or feel connected in some of those other capacities that weren't available 20 years ago?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And I think that it is nothing a malicious thing.
Speaker B:It is really just.
Speaker B:This is the state of how we experienced life.
Speaker B:I mean, that's just how they experience life.
Speaker B:And if you think about.
Speaker B:We just had our educators get together.
Speaker B:We have an educators conference so that people can talk about what's going on in education.
Speaker B:And there was a really interesting reflection that today's freshmen that are starting college today were freshmen when Covid started in high school.
Speaker B:And the relevant things that you start to understand in high school, you just start to learn how you.
Speaker B:What even self advocacy is.
Speaker B:You know, that I need to speak up for myself or I need to go talk to the teacher if I don't understand something, you do these things.
Speaker B:And they did that in 100% virtual world, and there were no open office hours, and so we didn't know how to do time management or prepare for a test.
Speaker B:And so now that's following over into college education.
Speaker B:Well, if you think about college education that went through Covid is now in the workplace in their very first four years.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:And you've got your first set of managers that had to learn management skills completely over Zoom.
Speaker B:So there's this whole series of things of development in our core, that three, you know, four years expedited change that we're now seeing.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But it was happening before that because of these tools, these extensions of our arms that we can't live without.
Speaker B:But even in the way we absorb information through a podcast, through video, we see people.
Speaker B:We think we're connected to them because we saw them, because we listened to them, that there is something different that's changed around.
Speaker B:What does connection really mean?
Speaker B:What is deep, meaningful connection versus just, I know somebody we've deemed people that I know on Facebook or LinkedIn as a friend, you know, but really, is that really the definition of a friend or a professional network?
Speaker B:And so there's a lot that I think that this new generation is challenged with in experiencing things the same way that maybe we did in launching our career.
Speaker B:And I mean, by golly, somebody told me as soon as I was a staff, you better go to the Colorado society and start going to things because you need to start meeting people, because five years from now, you're going to have to sell business.
Speaker B:I don't know that that's still happening.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker C:Did that happen to you?
Speaker C:Did you actually get that?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Okay, interesting.
Speaker B:Please go.
Speaker B:You know, oh, you need to.
Speaker B:You need to start your network.
Speaker B:And I had my senior at that time invite me and say, look, I'm going to this thing at the Colorado society.
Speaker B:You need to come with me.
Speaker C:How funny.
Speaker B:And would I have gone without somebody telling me to go or inviting me to go?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:And so I just don't know if we think about that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:That little arm up who's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Are we really, like, reaching our hand out and saying, you should come with me, or, look, this was really beneficial to.
Speaker B:Maybe you should consider it.
Speaker B:And I think people are absolutely kind of nervous.
Speaker B:I think there's some social anxiety about going to do something for the first time on my own that maybe we haven't necessarily helped teach them and support them through that process.
Speaker C:That's interesting.
Speaker C:So at one point in my career, I traveled nationally because I didn't want to leave Denver.
Speaker C:And in order to advance myself at Deloitte, I needed to bring up a bigger book of business.
Speaker C:You just really couldn't get that in the Colorado market.
Speaker C:So I traveled nationally, and I remember being a time where I thought, oh, my God, I'm by myself and I don't want to just eat in my hotel room.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:And I'm here.
Speaker C:I'm going to take myself out to dinner in this weird, foreign place.
Speaker C:I'm going to bring a book so I don't feel alone.
Speaker C:And then I end up having these wonderful experiences because I traveled so much, I was just not going to spend every night getting room service and sitting in.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But it was a real big outstretching of myself that I hadn't experienced before.
Speaker C:And then I never met a stranger and I learned all about my communities and then I, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker C:And then I actually started practicing yoga as a byproduct of the stress of our career.
Speaker C:And actually just an idea.
Speaker C:The american bar, well, the Denver bar subsidizes yoga classes, so you get a discount if you're a part of the bar.
Speaker C:I don't know if the color society has even thought of that, but it was a nice little add on.
Speaker C:So I got a discount to join core power yoga.
Speaker C:But I never would have done yoga if I wasn't so stressed, honestly.
Speaker C:But once I got more tools, I was more able to be present and do the things, to be a whole person and a whole professional.
Speaker C:All the things it took getting outside myself, right out of my cube, out of my, you know, little box to like learn about more things.
Speaker C:And then that enhances your practice.
Speaker C:And also, honestly, in that part of my career, boy, did I learn about America and our businesses.
Speaker C:I mean, there's just a lot of businesses besides the ones you go to every day.
Speaker C:So that's really fun.
Speaker C:I mean, the entrepreneurial spirit of everybody is fascinating.
Speaker A:Well, Judy, that's really interesting that you, you know, as you were talking and sharing your experience because I think you spent a lot of time in Boston and having to entertain yourself.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Is that a result of COVID We don't have to travel as much anymore.
Speaker A:And so we've adopted to the idea that we don't have to leave home.
Speaker A:And so you get kind of stuck in that kind of rotness of we don't have to leave home to engage with a client in Boston or engage with the UK kind of again, you lose out on that opportunity to be tactile because it is so much easier and efficient.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:To just pick up the phone, that's 1 hour versus like, okay, well, I have to, I have to get dressed.
Speaker A:So that's, you know, 30 minutes investment in a shower and then I have to go sit in the car and that's another 30 minutes.
Speaker A:And then it's, you know, so in that activity that's really only 1 hour, you're kind of increasing efficiency.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Versus that was a two hour activity between start to get door to door bed to back home.
Speaker A:So we almost have now focused more on the efficiencies versus the long, you know, the.
Speaker A:The value, the intangible value associated with, you know, leaving the home or engaging or connecting with other people or traveling.
Speaker A:Correct?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, I'm really grateful that we were able to make it through Covid.
Speaker C:I mean, Meredith researched the taxability of streaming.
Speaker C:I mean, I remember going to a conference years ago, and it said content, and I'm like, what are you talking about?
Speaker C:What the heck?
Speaker C:But if it weren't for Netflix, which was my client at Deloitte, by the way, this.
Speaker C:When they had desks, Meredith researched streaming because that was a new service.
Speaker C:It got us through Covid.
Speaker C:So we've seen a lot of evolution in our careers by working with different businesses that are starting with ideas that grow to become household brands.
Speaker C:But, yeah, I do think there was.
Speaker C:I mean, I'm glad we're not traipsing all around the earth like we were.
Speaker C:I mean, I was premier status.
Speaker C:I had, like, it was great.
Speaker C:And then.
Speaker C:But at some point, you're like, I don't need to eat dinner at another place and be alone in a hotel room.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I don't really care that I'm a Marriott special person, you know, so because it is nice to be able to connect and be able to do things virtually today, I think.
Speaker C:But we do have to remember that IRL is a value, too, that, you know, that connection.
Speaker C:I mean, I have clients that are, like, still my friends because we built a relationship side of work, because we work so much together.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So those were important parts of your career that are very satisfying.
Speaker B:I think one of the other parts that I've seen emerge is, you know, you talk about the, you know, like the Netflix effect or different, you know, content creation, different things.
Speaker B:I also call it the Amazon effect in some ways of.
Speaker B:We've under.
Speaker B:We've started to got to the point where whatever it is I need, I'll buy it.
Speaker B:At that point.
Speaker B:I don't have to think about what I'm going to need three years from now, five years from now, and I can get it personalized and delivered to me.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so I don't really have to go out and seek it.
Speaker B:We have a very much individual mindset versus kind of that and personalized mindset rather than that collective mentality around what am I doing to contribute, you know, broader than just what my needs of my household are.
Speaker B:And when I need it, I'll go get it.
Speaker B:Not necessarily thinking about, well, look, this is something that I'm going to have to build over time.
Speaker B:And so people think I can just go online onto LinkedIn and say, hey, I'm looking for a referral to so and so, or I'm a business, can you just, you know, I just need somebody now for this.
Speaker B:And really we've lost in some ways this ability to think further than two day prime in a lot of areas that we have.
Speaker B:And really our true relationships are not built that way.
Speaker B:Relationships are not microwavable.
Speaker B:They're not.
Speaker B:You don't just say, okay, Amazon deliver to me a quality trusted, you know, coworker quality trusted referral network and I want it here in two days.
Speaker B:So I think that Amazon effect has also impacted how we think about what it takes to build our professionals.
Speaker C:That is really interesting because, you know, now that you go on these things and it's free, and then they sell your name, right, so now I get like constant, buy this, maybe you want this.
Speaker C:I'm like, get away from me.
Speaker C:Like if I'm going to go find that service, I'm not going to probably buy it from you.
Speaker C:So these constant email campaigns, it's not efficient, I don't think.
Speaker C:I think it's just clogging up my inbox and making me mad, quite, quite honestly, that I don't want to work with you.
Speaker C:And it's like completely unemotional and unconnected.
Speaker C:And I think we've got this generation, it's unrelational.
Speaker C:I think kids think, oh, we could just do it and eventually it'll work.
Speaker C:I'm not so sure that's the case.
Speaker C:It is about word of mouth and trust.
Speaker C:You know, you can't get trust from an email.
Speaker C:Writing a nice email.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's an interesting, it always, you know, one of my partners, he's a little bit older than me, but he just says, people just call me.
Speaker C:I've been doing it a long time and I've got relationships and the trust relationship.
Speaker C:So I get a warm lead, which is a lot easier.
Speaker C:Net new need.
Speaker C:And our marketing director says we don't need to do blossy proposals.
Speaker C:Nobody cares about all the pretty proposal stuff.
Speaker C:They want to know the numbers, who you are and whether you can help them.
Speaker C:That's what they want.
Speaker C:So you don't need to put a bunch of puffery around it.
Speaker C:It's really tactile.
Speaker C:So yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Which is obviously probably why we've done this podcast, so that people can see us in action.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:People don't understand it.
Speaker C:Like, really, doctor, they can at least.
Speaker B:See you, get a preview.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like, we are.
Speaker C:So are you.
Speaker B:The community is.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Agreed.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:To build that community.
Speaker B:I think that's really what my role.
Speaker B:We build community for cpas, and cpas need other cpas, and we need a support group.
Speaker B:We need network, we need ongoing learning, we need training.
Speaker B:And when something happens and you experience something, and then I experience something, we can learn from each other.
Speaker B:And when I go through a job change and there's an opportunity over there, like, your network knows who's good and who needs what, and we need those kinds of supportive networks, and businesses need that, which is why business groups are together.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, it's been a really interesting thing to watch and then try to kind of undo some of those things and reteach people the power of the network.
Speaker A: u know, we're halfway through: Speaker A: h, like looking forward to in: Speaker B:That's a great question.
Speaker B:And I think, you know, as an organization, we're really thinking, you know, it's interesting, as a professional organization, you have to think about the profession and you have to think about the organization.
Speaker B:So we are constantly thinking two streams of strategy in a lot of ways.
Speaker B:And so we're thinking about, how do we preserve the organization, keep the organization relevant, but then also how do we support the profession, and what is it that we're doing to advocate for the profession, for the professionals, so that it can stay sustainable over the long term.
Speaker B:So really, our focus this particular year has been twofold.
Speaker B:We're really thinking as our organization, why, like, how do we support our members?
Speaker B:What's the truest value to them?
Speaker B:How do we realign services?
Speaker B:Because what it once was is not what it is today.
Speaker B:So when we think about the needs of learning, that's changed, what service really means has changed.
Speaker B:We're really trying to understand what's our role as the advocate and increase our capacity to do so, because I think CPAs need advocates in so many more arenas than just protecting their license.
Speaker B:And so we've been highly focused on over the last years, growing our capacity to, to speak into issues that matter to cpas.
Speaker B:And so we're thinking about our organizational capacity, and then we're also thinking about the professional's capacity.
Speaker B:What are the opportunities that we are growing to reach students.
Speaker B:We launched our foundation, educational foundation is kind of our sister organization that we use donations from our members to help support the future of the profession.
Speaker B:And we give scholarships, and we just launched a.
Speaker B:Another scholarship this year, which is our community college transfer scholarship.
Speaker B:So really thinking about the pipeline and that so many people, from a cost standpoint, are exploring community colleges is the first step now.
Speaker B:So how can we get them to maybe take the next step and transfer into a four year institution to study accounting?
Speaker B:So I'm super excited about some of the things that we're doing to try and address different areas of the pipeline, and that's been, like, the number one issue.
Speaker B:But then I think from a professional standpoint, that employee experience enhancing and keeping people in the profession, one of the programs that I'm super excited about that we do is our lead fit program, and that really is the leadership development of those that are in that three to five year space.
Speaker B:And it is the highlight of my year because I do the program with them and watch them encounter experiences that, you know, personally and professionally that they haven't actually taken the time to reflect upon and really dive deep into, and so enhancing their experience of the profession as well as kind of promoting the future of it.
Speaker B:So we are thinking the other thing in the profession that we're just trying to stay on current trends.
Speaker B:You know, this particular year, as you even see in legislatively in Colorado, things emerge like ESG and reporting and artificial intelligence, and there's laws around, you know, that are kind of emerging.
Speaker B:All of that impacts our professionals.
Speaker B:So really just trying to make sure that we're giving our professionals the opportunity to explore and expand their horizons and be think about how those things are going to be impacting them three to five years down the road or faster.
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:What is ESG?
Speaker B:Environmental, social and governance report.
Speaker C:Oh, okay.
Speaker C:I was like, Edi.
Speaker C:I know that one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so there is a huge push.
Speaker B:California was one of the first, is one of our first states that actually has requirements for business to start reporting and get some sort of certification on that by an auditor or I, somebody involved in reporting not just financial data, but now data around their environmental impact, their social impact, and their governance procedures.
Speaker B:So we're seeing this emerge, that the price to play the game business isn't just, I produce a financial return, but what I leave is more than, you know, what I used, whether that's environmentally, the people and how I've impacted them in my communities and the way in which I govern my business.
Speaker B:Business.
Speaker B:And so the price to play has increased.
Speaker B:And so as cpas that support business, we have to think about how our services also provide trust in those areas.
Speaker B:Because, like I said, cpas provide trust.
Speaker B:We don't just provide numbers.
Speaker B:And so what is it that the role of a CPA is when it comes to artificial intelligence and making sure that businesses, consumers can trust it?
Speaker B:What's the role of a CPA on when businesses have to report on their carbon impact and they're telling their consumers what that is?
Speaker B:What's the role of the CPA in validating that kind of data?
Speaker B:And if cpas don't think about the role that they need to play in that, they will be left behind and somebody else will take the role of trust.
Speaker B:And so as a profession and as an organization, we really are trying to think where, you know, far into the future, what's the role of cpas and how can we help prevent a them.
Speaker C:Now, one of my nieces went into marketing, but because she was a CPA, it was really effective, because then you know how to measure the value of the marketing effort.
Speaker C:So she, like, would know how to budget, right.
Speaker C:And then she knew how to see if that campaign was effective.
Speaker C:So it was a really good medley of her skills and then a fun, different area of practice, but she was still a CPA.
Speaker C:But she like, I don't want to be a controller anymore.
Speaker C:I want to do this other thing.
Speaker C:But that skill level was super beneficial to the company because I think a lot of marketing people don't understand money either.
Speaker C:I mean, I have what we undergrad in business.
Speaker C:You have.
Speaker C:I had finance, accounting, marketing and management.
Speaker C:I think those are the four options that I could have chosen my profession.
Speaker C:And so marketing people don't really have a lot of accounting classes, right?
Speaker C:And accounting people don't have a lot of marketing classes.
Speaker C:So you do need to cross pollinate in these areas, but all of them collectively matter.
Speaker C:I see a lot of people in marketing sales that spend, spend, spend.
Speaker C:And you're like, okay, but does that make economic sense?
Speaker C:I mean, you know, if you're gonna.
Speaker C:If you're a $50 million company spending $9 million in advertising, is that the best way to use your resources to maximize your bottom line?
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:How do you measure the.
Speaker C:I had a client, I think they spent 300,000 a month on Google Ads.
Speaker C:I'm like, holy moly, that's a lot of coin to get your search button.
Speaker C:But they get customers from that, and then they could measure the ROI on that.
Speaker C:So it really wasn't a big spend for what the return was, because they needed all those opportunities to come to them, to have them transition to clients, and then it was worth it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, and Alicia, as we wrap up, when you eventually move on from your role at the cocpA, as I imagine this, maybe this is forever, but at some point, you will no longer be the CEO of this cocpae.
Speaker A:And that's a lot of acronyms.
Speaker A:What legacy do you hope to leave behind at the organization?
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker C:Except for falling in Mary's footplots, because she was there a long time.
Speaker B:Yeah, she absolutely was.
Speaker B:And it's really interesting because the organization's been around for over 100 years, but there's only been two CEO's behind before me.
Speaker B:And that was because they were in that role for so long and dedicated to the work they did.
Speaker B:And I also think came into the role fairly young, and so had the opportunity to have a long Runway to make the impact that they did.
Speaker B:And so it definitely is, you know, an honor that I find to be able to serve in this role, because it's not about the legacy I leave.
Speaker B:I think it really is about legacy that the organization leaves on the profession itself.
Speaker B:And so the legacy I leave is empowering the people that work for the organization, the volunteers in it, and the professionals that use its support to feel like that they can carry on regardless that their careers are better because they were part of this organization in some form or fashion.
Speaker B:And that's the legacy.
Speaker B:I really hope.
Speaker B:It's not about me.
Speaker B:It's about the fact that the accounting profession that CPA is working at feel like they had a better experience because of their involvement in the cOCPA.
Speaker B:And that's the legacy I want, that members that have come through it feel that way, that they feel like they had a sense of belonging, that there was something that they belonged to, and they were proud of it.
Speaker B:I am so proud of my profession.
Speaker B:I'm proud to call myself a CPA.
Speaker B:And a lot of that's because it's not just the individual work that I've done, but because I see what other cpas do and that I'm connected to them, that I'm like, in the same brand as them, you know?
Speaker B:So I just am so proud of what we do collectively.
Speaker B:And my hope is that through my work in the organization, it stays one of those places that people feel really proud to be a part of form of fuzzies.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker B:Who says cpas don't have heart.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker C:We are not just cold and callous.
Speaker C:We're not just number crunchers.
Speaker B:You've got mind and heart, which makes us the best kind.
Speaker C:Agree?
Speaker C:Agree.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:And I think that's the perfect place to end kind of our discussion.
Speaker A:Alicia, thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker A:Thank you so much for your work with the Colorado society and thank you for showing up at the tax council and kind of spreading, you know, kind of the cocpenne.
Speaker A:We really appreciate all that you do and it was just amazing to have you here kind of spending your time with us.
Speaker A:So thank you.
Speaker B:Yes, well, thank you for your deep expertise in sharing it and really appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker A:And that is another episode of saltivation.
Speaker A:Till next time.
Speaker A:This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not intended nor should it be relied upon as legal, tax, accounting or investment investment advice.
Speaker A:You should consult with a competent professional to discuss specifics of your situation and the applicability of the information presented.
